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  #5  
Old 05-11-2006, 08:44 PM
retinula@hotmail.com
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Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?

exactly. the only refractive change that happens to adult hyperopes is
that they manifest even more hyperopia over time. kinda shoots the
"accommodative stress induces myopia" theory in the foot. never
convinced otis though.

Alt 05-11-2006, 08:44 PM
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2006, 06:22 PM
Neil Brooks
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Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?



Mike Tyner wrote:

- quote -

> > I don't know what "stresses" you mean. If "stress" is accommodation,
then
> > there are lots of people who carry around a huge load of habitual
> > accommodation and they aren't more prone to nearsightedness. If
"stress" is
> > something else then please be more specific.

LarryDoc wrote:

- quote -

> The uncorrected or undercorrected hyperopes (farsighted) are that group
> of constantly stressed (at least accomodation -wise) people.

As usual, I like to cite myself as a wonderful anecdotal example:

Despite YEARS of disability due to chronic eye pain, eventually diagnosed
(by me) as severe ciliary spasm (call that "accommodative stress?"),
eventually diagnosed and "relieved" via MONTHS of nightly cycloplegic
use--when the spasm finally "broke," eliciting nearly three diopters of
formerly non-existent accommodative amplitudes--it turns out that my
underlying cycloplegic refraction HAD NOT CHANGED since I was an infant (I
gathered all the records).

Still the same high-hyperopic, moderate astigmatic Rx. IF ciliary
stress/accommodative tension/call it what you will will elongate the eye
.... how come it didn't elongate mine ... after YEARS of EXTREME stress? I
was waiting. I would have welcomed it.

But it didn't.

Outlier or not ... they have to be addressed, no?


  #3  
Old 05-11-2006, 06:15 PM
LarryDoc
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Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?

I think for those readers who have not already bought into this, there
are two key points to reflect on here:

In article <FEv8g.2700$u4.357[at]newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> ,
"Mike Tyner" <mtyner[at]mindspring.com> wrote:


- quote -

> I don't know what "stresses" you mean. If "stress" is accommodation, then
> there are lots of people who carry around a huge load of habitual
> accommodation and they aren't more prone to nearsightedness. If "stress" is
> something else then please be more specific.

The uncorrected or undercorrected hyperopes (farsighted) are that group
of constantly stressed (at least accomodation -wise) people.
- quote -

> > In Russia, I understand that learning to read is
> > delayed from 1-3 years. For this reason and they see less
> > nearsightedness accordingly.
> We agree that myopia is associated with more time spent reading. Myopia is
> an adaptive response to near work. But easing accommodation with special
> lenses does not significantly alter that correlation.

The other key point. Tested clinically for decades. Wish it worked, but
hope and prayers don't affect change here.
- quote -

> > This is what I was taught and how I have apporached this problem for
> > over 30 years with my patients. When you are right 9/10 of the time,
> > it is hard to chuck it all and start thinking exclusively genetics.
> Makes one wonder why the effect doesn't show up in controlled studies.
> -MT

Ah, science.

LB, O.D.
  #2  
Old 05-11-2006, 11:41 AM
p.clarkii@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?


tkopan1[at]yahoo.com wrote:
- quote -

> WHile I do not dispute the work of these learned researchers, I have a
> hard time with the "genetic predisposition" aspect of this. While
> certain types of high refractice error of all types has been shown to
> be hereditary, vision, being a learned response, changes with the
> amount of stress the visual system can handle.
> Without trying to be racist or bigoted, we see a alot of high myopia in
> the asian populations. These people, as a whole, have different view
> of education and instill in their children the need to strive for
> excellence. The Indian culture (from India) is much the same way in
> the educated segment of their population.

your own experience as you relate above for myopia in indian and asian
populations is actually consistent with the idea of genetic
predisposition that you say you have a hard time with.

- quote -

> Once you use up your ability to absorb visual stress (i.e. reading and
> CRT use) after doing this task for hours at a time, your ciliary muscle
> 'cramps up' causing a blur at far which initially clears, but later can
> become permanent by causing elongation of the eyeball which is, by
> definition, myopia.

what evidence is there that accommodative spasm/excess leads to axial
elongation?

- quote -

> This is why so many functionally/developmentally
> trained optometrists apply reading lenses to young people. In some
> cases, the child's eye is not ready to absorb these kinds of stresses
> at such an early age. In Russia, I understand that learning to read is
> delayed from 1-3 years. For this reason and they see less
> nearsightedness accordingly.
> This is what I was taught and how I have apporached this problem for
> over 30 years with my patients. When you are right 9/10 of the time,
> it is hard to chuck it all and start thinking exclusively genetics.
> --Dr. Tom
> retinula[at]hotmail.com wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > here is an interesting and highly speculative article that I was
> > alerted to by dr. judy. I believe someone posting here a month or two
> > ago gave reference to this theory but a link was never posted.
> > > perhaps, after reading this, many of the people who are so frustrated
> > about their myopia might consider it in a different light.
> > > retinula
> > > ============
> > > W. Mak, M.W.M. Kwan, T.S. Cheng, K.H. Chan, R.T.F. Cheung and S.L. Ho
> > Department of Medicine, Queen Mary Hospital, University of Hong Kong,
> > 4/F, Professorial Block, 102 Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong, PR China
> > > Medical Hypotheses 2006 vol. 66(6) Pages 1209-1215
> > > Myopia as a latent phenotype of a pleiotropic gene positively selected
> > for facilitating neurocognitive development, and the effects of
> > environmental factors in its expression
> > > Myopia has become an almost pandemic problem in many populations.
> > There are compelling evidence to suggest that myopia is a hereditary
> > condition. However, myopia would constitute a definite selection
> > disadvantage during most stages of human evolution, which is
> > incompatible with its moderate to high prevalence in most modern
> > populations. The rapid upsurge of myopia over just a few decades also
> > implies that its inheritance does not follow any of the usual
> > patterns, and environmental factors may have an important role in
> > precipitating its occurrence in those who are genetically predisposed.
> > Previous studies showed that myopes were, on average, more intelligent
> > than non-myopes, and this association had been attributed to a
> > biological link between eye growth and brain development. We propose a
> > pleiotropic genetic model to explain the atypical epidemiologic and
> > inheritance pattern of myopia and its relationship with neurocognitive
> > development. This pleiotropic gene was positively selected for its
> > facilitation of human intelligence. The myopic component is a latent
> > phenotype; myopia will not be expressed unless some novel external
> > factors are encountered (i.e. a "quirk" phenomenon). Therefore, the
> > myopic component was selectively neutral in our ancestral environment.
> > The net gain in Darwinian fitness enables the pleiotropic gene to
> > attain a high frequency in the human population, as reflected by our
> > current prevalence of myopia.
> > > Shortened Link:
> > http://tinyurl.com/kusft

  #1  
Old 05-11-2006, 12:34 AM
Mike Tyner
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?


<tkopan1[at]yahoo.com> wrote


- quote -

> vision, being a learned response, changes with the
> amount of stress the visual system can handle.

Visual perception simply doesn't vary enough to make your assumption
possible.

Visual perception eg logMAR, color, and stereo acuity are easily measured
and they only vary with the obvious interference of drugs, cataracts,
refractive error and muscle or receptor fatigue. Those are "stressors" but I
gather that isn't the "stress" you mean. I'm not sure what "stress" is, and
neither are you. Insofar as vision is the pure neurological function of
assimilating sensory input, it's pretty constant after age 8 or so. So is
hearing.

But axial length is not neurological vision.

- quote -

> Without trying to be racist or bigoted,
> we see a alot of high myopia in
> the asian populations. These people, as a
> whole, have different view
> of education and instill in their children
> the need to strive for
> excellence. The Indian culture (from India)
> is much the same way in
> the educated segment of their population.

Then it must hold true for a diaspora of Jews, because they're nearsighted,
too.

- quote -

> Once you use up your ability to absorb
> visual stress (i.e. reading and
> CRT use) after doing this task for hours
> at a time, your ciliary muscle
> 'cramps up' causing a blur at far which
> initially clears, but later can
> become permanent by causing elongation
> of the eyeball which is, by
> definition, myopia.

It's a heavily ingrained idea. It just don't work that way.

- quote -

> This is why so many functionally/developmentally
> trained optometrists apply reading lenses to young people.

But for the last twenty years, doctors of all flavors have been taught that
these techniques were not worthwhile for myopia control, and that those who
recommend special glasses for myopia control are bilking the public. You
have an uphill climb trying to reverse such conventions.

- quote -

> In some cases, the child's eye is not ready to
> absorb these kinds of stresses
> at such an early age.

I don't know what "stresses" you mean. If "stress" is accommodation, then
there are lots of people who carry around a huge load of habitual
accommodation and they aren't more prone to nearsightedness. If "stress" is
something else then please be more specific.

- quote -

> In Russia, I understand that learning to read is
> delayed from 1-3 years. For this reason and they see less
> nearsightedness accordingly.

We agree that myopia is associated with more time spent reading. Myopia is
an adaptive response to near work. But easing accommodation with special
lenses does not significantly alter that correlation.

- quote -

> This is what I was taught and how I have apporached this problem for
> over 30 years with my patients. When you are right 9/10 of the time,
> it is hard to chuck it all and start thinking exclusively genetics.

Makes one wonder why the effect doesn't show up in controlled studies.

-MT


 
Old 05-10-2006, 04:35 PM
tkopan1@yahoo.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?

WHile I do not dispute the work of these learned researchers, I have a
hard time with the "genetic predisposition" aspect of this. While
certain types of high refractice error of all types has been shown to
be hereditary, vision, being a learned response, changes with the
amount of stress the visual system can handle.

Without trying to be racist or bigoted, we see a alot of high myopia in
the asian populations. These people, as a whole, have different view
of education and instill in their children the need to strive for
excellence. The Indian culture (from India) is much the same way in
the educated segment of their population.

Once you use up your ability to absorb visual stress (i.e. reading and
CRT use) after doing this task for hours at a time, your ciliary muscle
'cramps up' causing a blur at far which initially clears, but later can
become permanent by causing elongation of the eyeball which is, by
definition, myopia. This is why so many functionally/developmentally
trained optometrists apply reading lenses to young people. In some
cases, the child's eye is not ready to absorb these kinds of stresses
at such an early age. In Russia, I understand that learning to read is
delayed from 1-3 years. For this reason and they see less
nearsightedness accordingly.

This is what I was taught and how I have apporached this problem for
over 30 years with my patients. When you are right 9/10 of the time,
it is hard to chuck it all and start thinking exclusively genetics.

--Dr. Tom

retinula[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> Hello all,
> here is an interesting and highly speculative article that I was
> alerted to by dr. judy. I believe someone posting here a month or two
> ago gave reference to this theory but a link was never posted.
> perhaps, after reading this, many of the people who are so frustrated
> about their myopia might consider it in a different light.
> retinula
> ============
> W. Mak, M.W.M. Kwan, T.S. Cheng, K.H. Chan, R.T.F. Cheung and S.L. Ho
> Department of Medicine, Queen Mary Hospital, University of Hong Kong,
> 4/F, Professorial Block, 102 Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong, PR China
> Medical Hypotheses 2006 vol. 66(6) Pages 1209-1215
> Myopia as a latent phenotype of a pleiotropic gene positively selected
> for facilitating neurocognitive development, and the effects of
> environmental factors in its expression
> Myopia has become an almost pandemic problem in many populations.
> There are compelling evidence to suggest that myopia is a hereditary
> condition. However, myopia would constitute a definite selection
> disadvantage during most stages of human evolution, which is
> incompatible with its moderate to high prevalence in most modern
> populations. The rapid upsurge of myopia over just a few decades also
> implies that its inheritance does not follow any of the usual
> patterns, and environmental factors may have an important role in
> precipitating its occurrence in those who are genetically predisposed.
> Previous studies showed that myopes were, on average, more intelligent
> than non-myopes, and this association had been attributed to a
> biological link between eye growth and brain development. We propose a
> pleiotropic genetic model to explain the atypical epidemiologic and
> inheritance pattern of myopia and its relationship with neurocognitive
> development. This pleiotropic gene was positively selected for its
> facilitation of human intelligence. The myopic component is a latent
> phenotype; myopia will not be expressed unless some novel external
> factors are encountered (i.e. a "quirk" phenomenon). Therefore, the
> myopic component was selectively neutral in our ancestral environment.
> The net gain in Darwinian fitness enables the pleiotropic gene to
> attain a high frequency in the human population, as reflected by our
> current prevalence of myopia.
> Shortened Link:
> http://tinyurl.com/kusft

  #-1  
Old 05-10-2006, 01:42 PM
retinula@hotmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Myopia a side-effect of an Intelligence Gene?

Hello all,
here is an interesting and highly speculative article that I was
alerted to by dr. judy. I believe someone posting here a month or two
ago gave reference to this theory but a link was never posted.

perhaps, after reading this, many of the people who are so frustrated
about their myopia might consider it in a different light.

retinula

============

W. Mak, M.W.M. Kwan, T.S. Cheng, K.H. Chan, R.T.F. Cheung and S.L. Ho
Department of Medicine, Queen Mary Hospital, University of Hong Kong,
4/F, Professorial Block, 102 Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong, PR China

Medical Hypotheses 2006 vol. 66(6) Pages 1209-1215

Myopia as a latent phenotype of a pleiotropic gene positively selected
for facilitating neurocognitive development, and the effects of
environmental factors in its expression

Myopia has become an almost pandemic problem in many populations.
There are compelling evidence to suggest that myopia is a hereditary
condition. However, myopia would constitute a definite selection
disadvantage during most stages of human evolution, which is
incompatible with its moderate to high prevalence in most modern
populations. The rapid upsurge of myopia over just a few decades also
implies that its inheritance does not follow any of the usual
patterns, and environmental factors may have an important role in
precipitating its occurrence in those who are genetically predisposed.
Previous studies showed that myopes were, on average, more intelligent
than non-myopes, and this association had been attributed to a
biological link between eye growth and brain development. We propose a
pleiotropic genetic model to explain the atypical epidemiologic and
inheritance pattern of myopia and its relationship with neurocognitive
development. This pleiotropic gene was positively selected for its
facilitation of human intelligence. The myopic component is a latent
phenotype; myopia will not be expressed unless some novel external
factors are encountered (i.e. a "quirk" phenomenon). Therefore, the
myopic component was selectively neutral in our ancestral environment.
The net gain in Darwinian fitness enables the pleiotropic gene to
attain a high frequency in the human population, as reflected by our
current prevalence of myopia.

Shortened Link:
http://tinyurl.com/kusft

 

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gene, intelligence, myopia, sideeffect
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