correcting spherical without cylinder

#65 12-25-2006, 03:14 PM

dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:

- quote -

> Dear Mike Tyner,
> It's not that my textbooks don't cover it. It is just that I would
> like to see your view, DrG's view and other optometrists' views on
> this. Only then can I share the "Myopia Control" method that really
> works with all of you.

Were those case studies you posted examples of your results?

I remember a real life story of a doctor who was promoting refractive
error control. This was a pediatric OMD who had convinced his
long-time patient and the parents that he was going to lessen his
dependence on glasses for hyperopia. Every year he gave the young man
a lesser prescription. By the time he had moved away and became my
patient, he was wearing +2.00. A real miracle worker, that doctor.

The problem was that I refracted him at +4.00 manifestly, and +5.00
with cycloplegia. Unfortunately, so strong was their belief in this
"con artist," that they sought a second opinion from another OMD. This
doctor simply gave him the average of the two prescriptions. That was
the day I realized that some people are not about to let the facts get
in the way of a good story.

Dr. S, many of us here are weary of semantic games. If you have
something that is worthy of the scientific method, you can expect a
fair reading and an open and fair discussion. You needn't try to
figure out which way the wind is blowing, first. Nobody here that I
know is against myopia control in principle. There is a reason this
group is called sci.med.vision.

DrG

#64 12-25-2006, 02:17 AM

Mike Tyner wrote:
- quote -

> <dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com> wrote
> > Could you please explain the environmental modulation part? How does
> > the environment cause myopia? Thanks.
> You know, if your own textbooks didn't cover any of this, there's a pretty
> good article on wikipedia, under the topic "myopia."
> -MT

Dear Mike Tyner,

It's not that my textbooks don't cover it. It is just that I would
like to see your view, DrG's view and other optometrists' views on
this. Only then can I share the "Myopia Control" method that really
works with all of you.

I am going to start a new topic called "The Causes of Myopia" and we'll
go from there.

S.Seagal

#63 12-25-2006, 01:28 AM

<dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com> wrote

- quote -

> Could you please explain the environmental modulation part? How does
> the environment cause myopia? Thanks.

You know, if your own textbooks didn't cover any of this, there's a pretty
good article on wikipedia, under the topic "myopia."

-MT

#62 12-24-2006, 10:12 PM

dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
- quote -

> Dr. Leukoma wrote:
> > dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
> > > Thanks.
> > I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.
> > > DrG
> Dear Dr.G,
> Could you please explain the environmental modulation part? How does
> the environment cause myopia? Thanks.
> S.Seagal

Feel free to jump in here with your beliefs (and evidence--which
comports with the scientific method--in support of those beliefs) at any
time.....

#61 12-24-2006, 10:05 PM

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
- quote -

> dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
> > Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
> > Thanks.
> I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.
> DrG

Dear Dr.G,

Could you please explain the environmental modulation part? How does
the environment cause myopia? Thanks.

S.Seagal

#60 12-24-2006, 09:42 PM

Mike Tyner wrote:
- quote -

> <dr.sea...[at]yahoo.com> wrote
> > Dear DrG and Mike Tyner,
> > Could both of you please list all of the causes of axial myopia, all of
> > the reasons that axial elongation happens?
> Genetics would be the only "reason" firmly supported by the myopia
> literature. The contribution of environment (working up close, prolonged
> close work) is small, and the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
- quote -

> dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
> > Mike Tyner shared his view. What about you?
> > Could you please share your view on all of the causes of myopia?
> > Thanks.
> I believe that it is genetically based with environmental modulation.

Dear DrG,

Mike Tyner believe that the contribution of corrective lenses is nil.
Could you please share your view on this? Thanks.

S.Seagal

#59 12-24-2006, 08:56 PM

Dr. Leukoma wrote:
- quote -

> dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
> > Dr. Leukoma wrote:
> > > I don't regard myself as being a dogmatic person, and if such a method
> > > was presented and backed by sound science, then I would embrace it.
> > > I hope you do embrace it, as the method is science. If it is not
> > science, it won't work. Don't you agree?
> I believe that science explains why things work...it doesn't make them
> work.

Pardon my poor English writing skill and expressing skill, as English
is my seventh language. But you get the idea, I hope.

- quote -

> > > But, I happen to believe that we are indeed on the cusp of having such
> > > a method(s), and I think that this is a great time to be an
> > > optometrist.
> > > So do I. And I really enjoy solving myopia problems (eyeball
> > elongation, retinal detachment, etc.) instead of creating more myopia
> > problems.
> Then, I look forward to the publication of your findings, preferably in
> a peer-reviewed journal.

If I do write a paper, you should probably be my editor, hehe.

S.Seagal.

#58 12-24-2006, 08:02 PM

dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
- quote -

> Dear DrG,
> Dr. Leukoma wrote:
> > dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > Just to confirm, what is the success rate for myopia control in your
> > > office?
> > > It's difficult to say how much worse the myopes in my practice would
> > have gotten without my intervention because I don't treat one eye and
> > use the other for a control, treat one group and not the other, etc.
> I guess that means "low success rate" unless you would like to kindly
> give a more definite answer. (I was not asking about how much worse
> the myopes got. I was asking about the percentage of the myopes in
> your office whose myopia does not get worse. Mike Tyner's answer is
> zero which means none of the myopes in his office whose myopia does not
> get worse.)

Then you would be drawing the wrong conclusion. You asked about the
success rate for myopia control in my practice, which can only be
determined by measuring a treatment group against a group of controls.
Some myopes progress, some regress, and some remain stable.

- quote -

> > > What would you do if you know of a myopia control method that really
> > > works?
> > > It it was safe, efficacious, and practical to use, then I would employ
> > it. If it involves putting small children into helmets with plus
> > lenses in front of their eyes 24/7, then I would defer.
> Yes, it is safe, efficacious, and practical to use. No helmets are
> used. I solve myopia problem (axial elongation, etc.) with glasses,

> not helmets.

Inquiring minds wish to know.

- quote -

> > I don't regard myself as being a dogmatic person, and if such a method
> > was presented and backed by sound science, then I would embrace it.
> I hope you do embrace it, as the method is science. If it is not
> science, it won't work. Don't you agree?

I believe that science explains why things work...it doesn't make them
work.
- quote -

> > But, I happen to believe that we are indeed on the cusp of having such
> > a method(s), and I think that this is a great time to be an
> > optometrist.
> So do I. And I really enjoy solving myopia problems (eyeball
> elongation, retinal detachment, etc.) instead of creating more myopia
> problems.

Then, I look forward to the publication of your findings, preferably in
a peer-reviewed journal.

DrG

#57 12-24-2006, 07:53 PM

William Stacy schreef:
- quote -

> Jan wrote:
> > > > However, an advice from a real eyecare-specialist face to face
> > > instead of asking here on the internet is a far more wise decision.
> > Depends on who the "real" doc is, regardless of whether it's in person
> or on the 'net. I have lots of patients who'd rather ask me on line
> than in person because they are more at ease, less chance to forget
> some of the problems/issues, and they think (sometimes rightly so) that
> I'll have more time to think about my answers when I'm at the computer
> than when I'm in the exam room.
> The 'net is like life. You have to watch out for conflicting information.
> w.stacy, o.d.

Do you diagnose on line, even the strangers to you without seeing them?

No William your answer pointed only to your real patients who you
already have seen and even then only to a part of them.

Jan (normally Dutch spoken)

BTW, how do you earn your money?

#56 12-24-2006, 07:38 PM

<dr.seagal[at]yahoo.com> wrote

- quote -

> Yes, it is safe, efficacious, and practical to use. No helmets are
> used. I solve myopia problem (axial elongation, etc.) with glasses,
> not helmets.

You _presume_ that you solve the myopia problem.

- quote -

> I hope you do embrace it, as the method is science. If it is not
> science, it won't work. Don't you agree?

If you don't use scientific methods to test the efficacy of your treatment,
you cannot know that it works. Don't you agree?

- quote -

> So do I. And I really enjoy solving myopia problems (eyeball
> elongation, retinal detachment, etc.) instead of creating more myopia
> problems.

And I would really enjoy your telling us how you know you can cure myopia.

-MT

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