"lancaster red green test

#10 09-19-2007, 03:21 AM

On Sep 17, 12:40 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> On Sep 18, 3:33 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
> > > > > It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
> > > measurement will be unrelated to acuity.
> > > If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the
> > > measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be
> > > true
> > > But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias
> > > or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately
> > > aligned normal fovea.
> > The test is not measuring whether the person is aligning their foveas
> > with the target, it is measuring the amount of misalignment between
> > the two eyes. In strabismus, both eyes may align foveas with
> > monocular viewing but one eye will be misaligned during binocular
> > viewing. With phoria, both eyes align foveas but extraocular muscles
> > are needed to achieve binocular foveal alignment.
> > Other tests are used to uncover foveal misalignment --- fixation
> > disparity tests and Hadinger brush tests.
> > > I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals
> > > misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the
> > > appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered.
> > Training exercises for binocular muscle imbalances, fixation disparity
> > and foveal fixation have been in use for decades.
> > Dr Judy
> Dr Judy
> I was I believe told by you there are no successful methods of
> retraining the eyes to correct strabismus after the early childhood
> years.
> And now you and Dr Leukoma are telling me there are methods for
> training which can help in strabismus?
> Or are you saying something different here?
> Andrew- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

Fixation disparity, binocular vision problems and eccentric fixation
are not strabismus; eccentric fixation might be the result of
strabismus but the others are discorders of non strabismic eyes.

You may be confusing strabismus with amblyopia. Amblyopia needs to be
treated before age 6 for good results although some improvement is
possible up to age 16/17. Strabismus is best treated with surgery
with orthopics sometimes also used after surgery. Some claim to be
able to treat strabismus in adults with training alone but the success
rates are limited; likely less than 10%. I would call a method with
success rates that low "unsuccessful".

Strabismus has a number of other fusion problems associated with it
and they will persist after surgery: amblyopia, eccentric fixation,
anomolous correspondance, central suppresion, monofixational phoria.
These problems can be addressed with various training exercises in an
attempt to establish fusion and build binocular vision. Success is
limited and takes a lot of time.

Dr Judy

#9 09-17-2007, 04:40 PM

On Sep 18, 3:33 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
- quote -

> On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
> > > > It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
> > measurement will be unrelated to acuity.
> > If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the
> > measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be
> > true
> > But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias
> > or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately
> > aligned normal fovea.
> The test is not measuring whether the person is aligning their foveas
> with the target, it is measuring the amount of misalignment between
> the two eyes. In strabismus, both eyes may align foveas with
> monocular viewing but one eye will be misaligned during binocular
> viewing. With phoria, both eyes align foveas but extraocular muscles
> are needed to achieve binocular foveal alignment.
> Other tests are used to uncover foveal misalignment --- fixation
> disparity tests and Hadinger brush tests.
> > I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals
> > misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the
> > appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered.
> Training exercises for binocular muscle imbalances, fixation disparity
> and foveal fixation have been in use for decades.
> Dr Judy

Dr Judy

I was I believe told by you there are no successful methods of
retraining the eyes to correct strabismus after the early childhood
years.

And now you and Dr Leukoma are telling me there are methods for
training which can help in strabismus?

Or are you saying something different here?

Andrew

#8 09-17-2007, 03:50 PM

On Sep 18, 12:29 am, "Dr. Leukoma" <d...[at]leukoma.com> wrote:

- quote -

> If you want to test binocular fixation disparity, then you should use
> a Mallett fixation disparity test that has a fixation target.
> However, this is still not the approach I would use. I would use a
> Haidinger Brush because it more precisely defines the location of the
> fovea in relation to the object of fixation. This is what we use to
> train monocular fixation when amblyopia is present.

Excellent. Definately the most interesting thing i have learnt for a
while:-)

#7 09-17-2007, 03:33 PM

On Sep 16, 10:50 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
> > > It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
> measurement will be unrelated to acuity.
> If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the
> measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be
> true
> But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias
> or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately
> aligned normal fovea.

The test is not measuring whether the person is aligning their foveas
with the target, it is measuring the amount of misalignment between
the two eyes. In strabismus, both eyes may align foveas with
monocular viewing but one eye will be misaligned during binocular
viewing. With phoria, both eyes align foveas but extraocular muscles
are needed to achieve binocular foveal alignment.

Other tests are used to uncover foveal misalignment --- fixation
disparity tests and Hadinger brush tests.

- quote -

> I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals
> misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the
> appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered.

Training exercises for binocular muscle imbalances, fixation disparity
and foveal fixation have been in use for decades.

Dr Judy

#6 09-17-2007, 12:29 PM

On Sep 16, 9:50 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:
> > > It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
> measurement will be unrelated to acuity.
> If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the
> measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be
> true
> But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias
> or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately
> aligned normal fovea.
> I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals
> misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the
> appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Hess-Lancaster test is not designed
to measure foveation. It is designed to measure heterophorias and
strabismus, and to differentiate paralytic from non-paralytic
strabismus.

If you want to test binocular fixation disparity, then you should use
a Mallett fixation disparity test that has a fixation target.
However, this is still not the approach I would use. I would use a
Haidinger Brush because it more precisely defines the location of the
fovea in relation to the object of fixation. This is what we use to
train monocular fixation when amblyopia is present.

Or, you could go back to school and get an optometry degree.

#5 09-17-2007, 02:50 AM

On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:

- quote -

> > It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
measurement will be unrelated to acuity.

If the patient is correctly aligning their foveas and yet the
measuring observer sees targets that do not overlap then that could be
true

But if the test is revealing constantly misaligned foveas as tropias
or strabismus then acuity cannot be the same as for an accurately
aligned normal fovea.

I am inclined to believe at this stage that the test reveals
misaligned foveas which potentially could be corrected with the
appropriate training method - even if one has not yet been discovered.

#4 09-17-2007, 02:15 AM

On Sep 17, 10:10 am, Dr Judy <mpac...[at]rogers.com> wrote:

- quote -

> > the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
measurement will be unrelated to acuity.

Dr Judy

Do you have studies to support this for tropias?

If a tropia represents a constant deviation then since the fovea will
not be in the best position for the target then if this test shows
foveal misalignment then acuity has to be impacted by the deviation.

In human eyes acuity rapidly falls away from the centre of best
vision. It would therefore be unusual for acuity to be good if the
foveas were not correctly aligned.

Andrew

#3 09-16-2007, 10:10 PM

On Sep 15, 5:29 pm, andrewedwardj...[at]hotmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> I just came across this test.
> Could somebody give me some values for what kind of alignment accuracy
> would be found for a person of good vision at the distance point in
> degrees or some kind of measurement for a given distance?

It is a test to measure the magnitude of a phoria or tropia,
measurement will be unrelated to acuity. As in all biometric
measures, a plot of measures of a population will have a normal
distribution curve. A particular person's measure is their measure
and is a function of anatomy; no measure is "good" or "bad", it simply
is what it is.

If binocular problems are present, there are various exercises
(orthoptics) to build better compensating vergences but you cannot
change your phoria.

Dr Judy

#2 09-16-2007, 05:38 PM

Hi,

- quote -

> You'd do well to ignore them and wait for responses from the caring,
> compassionate eye doctors who DO also participate in this site.

The eye doctors here are caring and compassionate, so I wont deny it.
But they are terribly misguided, they do not know how to cure people.
I am just telling people about the cure of imperfect sight via rest
methods.

People have a RIGHT to know!
The readers can chose to ignore, but Mr.Brooks, I think we should let
them decide that for themselves, and you should not make up their mind
for them. I think the reader is more than intelligent enough to think
and discern for themselves.

To reader: if you wish to cure yourself of imperfect sight, go to the
online library of the Perfect Sight trilogy, on www.centralfixation.com
.. If you read the books there, you will be enlightened to the
knowledge of how to cure yourself without the aid of eye glass
crutches.

You can take your pick, I will not force you to read my view or the
views of the doctors. The truths, or the conceived idiocy of the
eyecare profession. You can chose for yourself. But Neil will tell you
to ignore me (he is scared that people might get cured, because he is
very greedy) so you can chose whether to ignore me or not. Remember:
It's YOUR choice! Make the right decision.

#1 09-16-2007, 02:06 PM

On Sep 16, 3:28 am, Zetsu <absolutelyinvinci...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

Sorry. Rishi (Zetsu) Giovanni Gatti is a long-time troll who haunts
s.m.v.

Otis Brown is another.

You'd do well to ignore them and wait for responses from the caring,
compassionate eye doctors who DO also participate in this site.

Similar Threads
Thread	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Red/green eye chart Charles: What is the red/green chart my eye doc has me looking at? He wants to know whether the letters are darker/clearer in the red half or the green...	Vision	10	08-19-2006 03:04 PM
EyeglassExam: Meaning Of "Red-Green Corrected" ? Robert11: Hello: Received a prescription from an opthamologist for new eyeglass lenses during visit. He mentioned that I should make sure to request in...	Vision	9	01-07-2006 02:36 AM

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode