> AutymnD. C. wrote:
> > On Oct 13, 7:07 pm, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...[at]excite.com> > wrote:
> > > In the event that an OBE provides accurate info about what happened
> > > outside the patient's normal range of perception, it's either just a
> > > coincidence or people in the ER are discussing things that influence the
> > > patient's hallucinations.
> > You cannot prove these claims, yet their claims are proof alone and
> > already. The hospital patients had no familiarity with surgical tools
> > or operations, nor the locations of sundry items about the building,
> > and they were out cold, yet they could report them accurately.
> > Likewise for the near-death or on-death OBEs, indoors or outdoors.
> > The one experiment I heard of with hidden messages and OBEs was poorly
> > designed; the messages were in a recess near the ceiling or in a small
> > box in another room, none of which a person or ghost would or could
> > look at. The person is supposed to be above and a'looking down; the
> > wriht spot to put something is on the floor.
> I'd love to think that OBEs allow us to see beyond the normal range of
> perception. Unfortunately, this is not possible. OBEs are just another
> hallucination. I wish they weren't but they are.

> The patients could have heard doctors discussing things. These probably
> influenced their hallucinations. The surgeons often discuss what items
> to use and on what location of the body. Maybe these patients heard

> doctors talking about the building. In the event that OBEs provide
> accurate information about areas of the environment not within normal
> human senses, that is because the patient probably had some subconscious
> knowledge of the hospital, its locations, and its devices -- or heard
> the doctors discussing about them while under anesthesia.

> Try not to get your information from unreliable sources. The media tends
media tend

> When we don't understand something, it makes us feel better to just
> label it as paranormal. Its human nature.

> Neuroscientists still have a long way to go, in understanding the brain.
> Just because today's equipment shows a patient to be "brain dead", does
> not mean he/she really is. At some extremely small level, the brain is
> still alive and working -- suspended animation perhaps -- however,
> today's devices cannot detect such small brain activity. Hence it's so
> much easier just to say the patient is brain-dead. EEG-readers have a
> limit to how small of a signal they can detect. The brain could still be
> alive and functioning but the voltages of the EEGs rhythms are so low
> that they are lost in the noise before present EEG-devices can detect
> them. Hence the EEG appears flat.

> On Oct 13, 7:07 pm, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...[at]excite.com> wrote:
> > In the event that an OBE provides accurate info about what happened
> > outside the patient's normal range of perception, it's either just a
> > coincidence or people in the ER are discussing things that influence the
> > patient's hallucinations.

> You cannot prove these claims, yet their claims are proof alone and
> already. The hospital patients had no familiarity with surgical tools
> or operations, nor the locations of sundry items about the building,
> and they were out cold, yet they could report them accurately.
> Likewise for the near-death or on-death OBEs, indoors or outdoors.

> The one experiment I heard of with hidden messages and OBEs was poorly
> designed; the messages were in a recess near the ceiling or in a small
> box in another room, none of which a person or ghost would or could
> look at. The person is supposed to be above and a'looking down; the
> wriht spot to put something is on the floor.

> In the event that an OBE provides accurate info about what happened
> outside the patient's normal range of perception, it's either just a
> coincidence or people in the ER are discussing things that influence the
> patient's hallucinations.

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:35:55 -0700, cust_support
> <brian_higgins[at]fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > On Oct 14, 7:40 am, "John H." <bingb...[at]goaway.com.au> wrote:
> > > > OBE is a type of hallucination. Nothing significant. It's just a
> > > > hallucination that occurs in such a way that it feels like you are
> > > > leaving your body. It's enjoyable because it's so strange but it
> > > > really
> > > > isn't anything big compared to other hallucinations. Despite what
> > > > Hollywood would like you to think, OBEs are neither a sign of a
> > > > supernatural power or an indicator that some spiritual entity is
> > > > calling
> > > > you.
> I agree and I would like to add that all the techniques to induce OBEs
> are clearly attempts to cause intense disorientation and harm to the
> mind. As example the attempting to fall asleep without losing
> consciousness, practically a passive form of sensory deprivation is a
> technique where the brain tends to fill in the gaps when there is
> nothing getting into the senses for some time.
> It's all about mind. There are individuals who like when their mind
> doesn't work properly, so use drugs or techniques like lack of sleep
> to destroy themselves.
> Don't play with yourself, be happy when everything works right. The
> human body is a beautiful machine, why trying to destroy it?
> --
> Manuel Marino
> My Weblog / Music, Arts, People, Ideas
> http://www.manuelmarino.com

> John H. wrote:
> > You might want to follow through of a Fenwick character, in Britain,
Peter I
> > think. He came with an experiment: in ER rooms place various objects out
of
> > direct sight around the room. If the patient claims to have had a OBE,
see
> > if they recall these objects. A friend of mine quipped: Yeah, put this
on
> > top of the ceiling fans: if you can read this you're dead.
> > > Don't know if he went ahead with the experiment.
> Did any of the patients see the objects that were placed out of their
> direct sight? I doubt it.

> On Oct 14, 7:40 am, "John H." <bingb...[at]goaway.com.au> wrote:

> > > OBE is a type of hallucination. Nothing significant. It's just a
> > > hallucination that occurs in such a way that it feels like you are
> > > leaving your body. It's enjoyable because it's so strange but it really
> > > isn't anything big compared to other hallucinations. Despite what
> > > Hollywood would like you to think, OBEs are neither a sign of a
> > > supernatural power or an indicator that some spiritual entity is calling
> > > you.

> You might want to follow through of a Fenwick character, in Britain, Peter I
> think. He came with an experiment: in ER rooms place various objects out of
> direct sight around the room. If the patient claims to have had a OBE, see
> if they recall these objects. A friend of mine quipped: Yeah, put this on
> top of the ceiling fans: if you can read this you're dead.
> Don't know if he went ahead with the experiment.

> You might want to follow through of a Fenwick character, in Britain, Peter I
> think. He came with an experiment: in ER rooms place various objects out of
> direct sight around the room. If the patient claims to have had a OBE, see
> if they recall these objects. A friend of mine quipped: Yeah, put this on
> top of the ceiling fans: if you can read this you're dead.
> Don't know if he went ahead with the experiment.
> "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...[at]excite.com> wrote in messagenews:4711774f$0$32555$4c368faf[at]roadrunner.com...
> > cust_support wrote:
> > > > Radium
> > > > P.S. the symptoms described above are definitely terrifying but at the
> > > > same time, they can be SO enjoyable!
> > > That's the problem, Rad, you approach things like a thrill-seeker.
> > > Adepts push the limits to test their knowledge. All these thrill-
> > > seekers want an out-of-body experience, but can't have it, because
> > > they're not ready for it. I don't want it, because like you, I have
> > > had a few accidents that produced this "aura" you crave, and I don't
> > > want to go there (again). When people confront serious physical
> > > challenges, like a car accident, the body releases a cascade of
> > > supportive hormones, above all adrenaline. Everybody thinks he knows
> > > what adrenaline is. It's not red-face rage. I won't try to describe my
> > > experience of it here, but I will tell you when it wears off, when the
> > > "aura" wears off, you pay the price. Let me ask you: Are you ready to
> > > hear voices? How about the voices of people you have known who have
> > > died? Get into yoga, first, and get a grip.
> > Adrenaline and hormones have very little -- if any -- role in causing
> > OBEs. It's all a result of what's happening in the brain. When injured,
> > the brain cells are unable control their excitability. Hence they
> > because overexcited. This hyperexcitation causes hallucinations.
> > OBE is a type of hallucination. Nothing significant. It's just a
> > hallucination that occurs in such a way that it feels like you are
> > leaving your body. It's enjoyable because it's so strange but it really
> > isn't anything big compared to other hallucinations. Despite what
> > Hollywood would like you to think, OBEs are neither a sign of a
> > supernatural power or an indicator that some spiritual entity is calling
> > you.
> > There are accounts of OBEs in ER patients. Even in those considered
> > "brain dead". There is still some amount of activity in the brain, this
> > activity is what accounts for the OBE the patients describe.
> > These patients may also describe a feeling of peace and happiness. This
> > is party due to the release of endorphins that are released in extremely
> > stressful.
> > Remember, its all in the brain.
> > Now, because OBEs can be so scary and exciting, they cause the release
> > of adrenaline.
> > In the event that an OBE provides accurate info about what happened
> > outside the patient's normal range of perception, it's either just a
> > coincidence or people in the ER are discussing things that influence the
> > patient's hallucinations.
> > It's extremely important to note that if something seems
> > too-good-to-be-true [such as being able to sense beyond the normal range
> > of perception], it probably is.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

> cust_support wrote:
> > > Radium
> > > > > P.S. the symptoms described above are definitely terrifying but at the
> > > same time, they can be SO enjoyable!
> > That's the problem, Rad, you approach things like a thrill-seeker.
> > Adepts push the limits to test their knowledge. All these thrill-
> > seekers want an out-of-body experience, but can't have it, because
> > they're not ready for it. I don't want it, because like you, I have
> > had a few accidents that produced this "aura" you crave, and I don't
> > want to go there (again). When people confront serious physical
> > challenges, like a car accident, the body releases a cascade of
> > supportive hormones, above all adrenaline. Everybody thinks he knows
> > what adrenaline is. It's not red-face rage. I won't try to describe my
> > experience of it here, but I will tell you when it wears off, when the
> > "aura" wears off, you pay the price. Let me ask you: Are you ready to
> > hear voices? How about the voices of people you have known who have
> > died? Get into yoga, first, and get a grip.
> Adrenaline and hormones have very little -- if any -- role in causing
> OBEs. It’s all a result of what’s happening in the brain. When injured,
> the brain cells are unable control their excitability. Hence they
> because overexcited. This hyperexcitation causes hallucinations.
> OBE is a type of hallucination. Nothing significant. It’s just a
> hallucination that occurs in such a way that it feels like you are
> leaving your body. It’s enjoyable because it’s so strange but it really
> isn’t anything big compared to other hallucinations. Despite what
> Hollywood would like you to think, OBEs are neither a sign of a
> supernatural power or an indicator that some spiritual entity is calling
> you.
> There are accounts of OBEs in ER patients. Even in those considered
> “brain dead”. There is still some amount of activity in the brain, this
> activity is what accounts for the OBE the patients describe.
> These patients may also describe a feeling of peace and happiness. This
> is party due to the release of endorphins that are released in extremely
> stressful.
> Remember, its all in the brain.
> Now, because OBEs can be so scary and exciting, they cause the release
> of adrenaline.
> In the event that an OBE provides accurate info about what happened
> outside the patient’s normal range of perception, it’s either just a
> coincidence or people in the ER are discussing things that influence the
> patient’s hallucinations.
> It’s extremely important to note that if something seems
> too-good-to-be-true [such as being able to sense beyond the normal range
> of perception], it probably is.

> > Radium
> > > P.S. the symptoms described above are definitely terrifying but at the
> > same time, they can be SO enjoyable!

> That's the problem, Rad, you approach things like a thrill-seeker.
> Adepts push the limits to test their knowledge. All these thrill-
> seekers want an out-of-body experience, but can't have it, because
> they're not ready for it. I don't want it, because like you, I have
> had a few accidents that produced this "aura" you crave, and I don't
> want to go there (again). When people confront serious physical
> challenges, like a car accident, the body releases a cascade of
> supportive hormones, above all adrenaline. Everybody thinks he knows
> what adrenaline is. It's not red-face rage. I won't try to describe my
> experience of it here, but I will tell you when it wears off, when the
> "aura" wears off, you pay the price. Let me ask you: Are you ready to
> hear voices? How about the voices of people you have known who have
> died? Get into yoga, first, and get a grip.