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  #11  
Old 03-28-2008, 02:28 PM
Neil Brooks
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Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

On Mar 28, 7:24 am, otisbr...[at]embarqmail.com wrote:
- quote -

> Otis> After reading his ORIGINAL studies -- that made sense -- and
> were LIMITED (1903 - 1913 ) I came to the conclusion that he
> began to exagerate his statements. (i.e., make excessive claims
> and statement.)

That, ALONE, should make you a fan.

Kindred spirits, at least!
Alt 03-28-2008, 02:28 PM
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Neil Brooks
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Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

On Mar 28, 5:13 am, Zetsu <absolutelyinvinci...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
- quote -

> "This" is an interesting aspect to the cure of imperfect sight.

No.

Maybe when you get older, you'll realize that it's nothing more than
an unverifiable, third-hand anecdote.
  #9  
Old 03-28-2008, 01:24 PM
otisbrown@embarqmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells


Bill> I amazed by how obtuse these few sentences are. The little I
have been
able to extract makes no sense to be based upon my knowledge of
geometric optics. Is someone able to translate from this pseudo-
English
into real English? I want to get an idea of just how crazy Bates was.

Otis> After reading his ORIGINAL studies -- that made sense -- and
were LIMITED (1903 - 1913 ) I came to the conclusion that he
began to exagerate his statements. (i.e., make excessive claims
and statement.)

Otis> In fact one person claimed (in Bates name) that he saw
a person "instantly" clear his vision from -40 diopters to normal.

Otis> The accepted power for the adult eye is about 60 diopters.

Otis> This would mean (for example) that the eye would have
to change its TOTAL POWER from 100 diopters to 60 diopters
in "and instant".

Otis> It is statements like these that make this situation difficult.

Just my second-opinion,






On Mar 27, 5:44*pm, Salmon Egg <Salmon...[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:
- quote -

> In article
> <68b3fbe3-d718-4dfd-a7e1-eeeb4e693...[at]u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com> ,
> *Zetsu <absolutelyinvinci...[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
> > [...A very remarkable patient, a girl aged eight, was treated more
> > than fifteen years ago. The vision of the right eye was 2/200 while
> > that of the left eye was 10/200. The right eye turned in most of the
> > time. The vision of the left eye was improved without glasses by
> > alternately resting the eyes.
> > An attempt was made to teach her how to see best where she was
> > looking. She very soon acquired the ability to practice central
> > fixation when the larger letters were regarded. The child became much
> > interested when she realized that her eyes felt better, while the
> > vision and strabismus improved. She practiced central fixation on
> > smaller letters and other objects. The strain which was manifest by
> > the contortions of the muscles of her eyes, face, and other parts of
> > her body disappeared. Her voice became more musical with the
> > improvement of her vision and the subsidence of the strabismus.
> > It was remarkable how well she became able to practice central
> > fixation on very small letters and other objects. She would hold a
> > glass slide on which a small drop of blood was mounted, and claim that
> > she saw the red cells, the white cells, and other minute particles
> > with her right eye while the glass slide was pressed against her
> > eyelashes. She was able to read each letter and period in photographic
> > reductions of the Bible, by central fixation...]
> > - Dr. W.H. Bates, March 1930
> I amazed by how obtuse these few sentences are. The little I have been
> able to extract makes no sense to be based upon my knowledge of
> geometric optics. Is someone able to translate from this pseudo-English
> into real English? I want to get an idea of just how crazy Bates was.
> A big help would be to describe the geometric configuration by giving
> dimensions in millimeters. Include focal lengths or powers of the eye's
> optical parts;
> Bill- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

  #8  
Old 03-28-2008, 11:13 AM
Zetsu
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

What kind of measuring are you talking about?

The girl was able to read and see perfectly with objects that were
touching her eyelashes. Why does one need a dioptrical measurement to
confirm that this is a remarkable feat? Tell me, how many people do
you know who can do the same thing?

"This" is an interesting aspect to the cure of imperfect sight. Bates
was simply reinforcing the frequent observation that when one is able
to restore their vision many other bodily abilities are improved. For
this girl, it meant her voice became more soft, relaxed, and melodic,
and so reflecting her state of mind and her eyesight.

The use of additional description in clinical observations is simply a
way to raise a point that may be of interest to the reader. It does
not indicate charlatanry.
  #7  
Old 03-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Zetsu
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

What kind of measuring are you talking about?

The girl was able to read and see perfectly with objects that were
touching her eyelashes. Why does one need a dioptrical measurement to
confirm that this is a remarkable feat? Tell me, how many people do
you know who can do the same thing?

"This" is an interesting aspect of the cure of imperfect sight. Bates
was simply reinforcing the frequent observation that when one is able
to restore their vision many other bodily abilities are improved. For
this girl, it meant her voice became more soft, relaxed, and melodic,
and so reflecting her state of mind and her eyesight.

The use of additional description in clinical observations is simply a
way to raise a point that may be of interest to the reader. It does
not imply charlatanry.
  #6  
Old 03-28-2008, 03:49 AM
Dan Abel
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

In article <SalmonEgg-C0BF33.20450627032008[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net> ,
Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

> In article
> <dabel-5C5769.17540527032008[at]c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au> ,
> Dan Abel <dabel[at]sonic.net> wrote:
> > I would call this 14mm. Anybody disagree?
> What is "this". "Anybody disagree?" is as ungrammatical as the writing I
> was trying to understand.


"This" is "Her voice became more musical".

It was meant to be a joke.

The way charlatans work is to use a lot of words to say nothing. It
doesn't appear that Bates did much measuring, just unscientific
observing.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
dabel[at]sonic.net
  #5  
Old 03-28-2008, 02:45 AM
Salmon Egg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

In article
<dabel-5C5769.17540527032008[at]c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au> ,
Dan Abel <dabel[at]sonic.net> wrote:

- quote -

> I would call this 14mm. Anybody disagree?

What is "this". "Anybody disagree?" is as ungrammatical as the writing I
was trying to understand.

Bill
  #4  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Dan Abel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

In article <SalmonEgg-34C15A.14442127032008[at]news.la.sbcglobal.net> ,
Salmon Egg <SalmonEgg[at]sbcglobal.net> wrote:

- quote -

> In article
> <68b3fbe3-d718-4dfd-a7e1-eeeb4e6938e4[at]u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com> ,
> Zetsu <absolutelyinvincible[at]hotmail.com> wrote:
> > [...A very remarkable patient, a girl aged eight,

> > Her voice became more musical with the

> > - Dr. W.H. Bates, March 1930
> I amazed by how obtuse these few sentences are. The little I have been
> able to extract makes no sense to be based upon my knowledge of
> geometric optics. Is someone able to translate from this pseudo-English
> into real English? I want to get an idea of just how crazy Bates was.
> A big help would be to describe the geometric configuration by giving
> dimensions in millimeters. Include focal lengths or powers of the eye's
> optical parts;

I would call this 14mm. Anybody disagree?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
dabel[at]sonic.net
  #3  
Old 03-27-2008, 09:27 PM
Zetsu
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

What is it that you don't understand, Bill?
  #2  
Old 03-27-2008, 08:44 PM
Salmon Egg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Girl - Able to Discern Cells

In article
<68b3fbe3-d718-4dfd-a7e1-eeeb4e6938e4[at]u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com> ,
Zetsu <absolutelyinvincible[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

- quote -

> [...A very remarkable patient, a girl aged eight, was treated more
> than fifteen years ago. The vision of the right eye was 2/200 while
> that of the left eye was 10/200. The right eye turned in most of the
> time. The vision of the left eye was improved without glasses by
> alternately resting the eyes.
> An attempt was made to teach her how to see best where she was
> looking. She very soon acquired the ability to practice central
> fixation when the larger letters were regarded. The child became much
> interested when she realized that her eyes felt better, while the
> vision and strabismus improved. She practiced central fixation on
> smaller letters and other objects. The strain which was manifest by
> the contortions of the muscles of her eyes, face, and other parts of
> her body disappeared. Her voice became more musical with the
> improvement of her vision and the subsidence of the strabismus.
> It was remarkable how well she became able to practice central
> fixation on very small letters and other objects. She would hold a
> glass slide on which a small drop of blood was mounted, and claim that
> she saw the red cells, the white cells, and other minute particles
> with her right eye while the glass slide was pressed against her
> eyelashes. She was able to read each letter and period in photographic
> reductions of the Bible, by central fixation...]
> - Dr. W.H. Bates, March 1930

I amazed by how obtuse these few sentences are. The little I have been
able to extract makes no sense to be based upon my knowledge of
geometric optics. Is someone able to translate from this pseudo-English
into real English? I want to get an idea of just how crazy Bates was.

A big help would be to describe the geometric configuration by giving
dimensions in millimeters. Include focal lengths or powers of the eye's
optical parts;

Bill
 

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